Author Topic: Star Wars: The Old Republic  (Read 129987 times)

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RC-288

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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2008, 08:07:57 AM »
Edited:

Let me be more Laconic speaking.

Short story:

1) I'm disapointed that Kotor will remain incomplete seemly for life, same with others rushed SW games.

2) I look foward to play this new game.


PS: I want to hear the thousand of reasons, for why Kotor was not completed this time, and if our hopes shall be answered at some point.

I wouldn't be able 2 understand how things are run in Lukas industry.... but who to blame?



So I guess not RC 2 either....hope I'm wrong.


« Last Edit: October 23, 2008, 08:24:04 AM by RC-1977 »

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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2008, 12:59:37 PM »
RC2 is probably not going to be created since Karen Traviss is done with Order 66. If there's a sequel it'll most likely be called Imperial Commando, if either to tie in with the books or be recognized as connected/part of the same category. I could be wrong however. They (Lucas Arts) also have quite a few games either in the making right now, or recently released, so if RC/IC gets made it'll be years away.


I'd quote your post Akula, but it's HYOOG! XD
But I completely understand what you mean regarding the mechanics of armor vs. no armor. SWG probably didn't set out to follow the same rule book as the KotOR combat system though, and so that is probably why they ended up with needing big fat armor.

As for the armor wearing parts, in the movie Master Kenobi is, actually, wearing armor during a few scenes over/under his robes while hunting down Grievous. You can see a few good shots of it during the execution of Order 66 scene.

For the most part though, the movies have made armor look like they're completely and totally worthless in the first place (lol one-shot to Stormtroopers? why?!) so I'm not surprised the RP campaigns reflected that way. However they need to do something about it... if only to give something to the Mandalorians. I mean, mandos wear their armor all the time, and it doesn't seem to restrict their movement any, but is that kind of thing available?
I have yet to play any RP campaign outside of the virtual kind, so I haven't had any experience with what you're talking about. (Not for want of trying, but I have few friends that interested in Star Wars. It's a sad affair, it is.)
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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2008, 02:10:22 PM »
I'd quote your post Akula, but it's HYOOG! XD

Sorry about that. I'm assuming you've seen Lord of the Rings. They talk in that movie about how the Ents only say something when it's worth saying because it takes a long time to say? Well here I am. Mr. Ent. Because I only post my opinions when I feel very strongly about something, and I'm always very careful to qualify my remarks.

But I completely understand what you mean regarding the mechanics of armor vs. no armor. SWG probably didn't set out to follow the same rule book as the KotOR combat system though, and so that is probably why they ended up with needing big fat armor.

I think without really being sure (because I try to block all memories of SWG out of my brain) that SWG came before KOTOR. And KOTOR barrowed the already inherently flawed D20 system (See below for some notes about this) for it's system. Having a d20 based MMO really doesn't work - which is why TOR won't be D20 based despite everyones predictions (And Bioware has already let us know this, too, which is good).

As for the armor wearing parts, in the movie Master Kenobi is, actually, wearing armor during a few scenes over/under his robes while hunting down Grievous. You can see a few good shots of it during the execution of Order 66 scene.

Even as I was typing this post I wondered if this was the case. I couldn't fathom him wearing it in the series (all of them) and not in the movie. But at the same time he doesn't don the same full suit he wore in the original Clone Wars series, it's more of some armored plates to increase his damage absorption then anything else.

For the most part though, the movies have made armor look like they're completely and totally worthless in the first place (lol one-shot to Stormtroopers? why?!) so I'm not surprised the RP campaigns reflected that way. However they need to do something about it...

I disagree with this. The new KOTOR book spells out the differances between Mandalorian Armor and Stormtrooper armor. But let me give you some base comparison stats so you can see what I mean.

E-11 (Stormtrooper) Rifle in D20: 2d8 Damage (Maximum of Sixteen)
Stormtrooper Armor: +6 Defense Bonus
Stormtrooper Level: Nonheroic Level 4

Now, let me explain the differance between 'heroic' (player) characters and non-heroic (Enemy) characters. Quick note: not all enemies are non-heroic. Some, like Sith Lords, are definatly heros. But most enemies are non-heroic. Non heroic levels are a way to create low-level thugs. IMO, this doesn't break the game because it allows for the 'movie magic' feel of the game. EX: Last encounter my players were on board a Hammerhead-class Republic Frigate. It had been boarded by five groups of Sith troops of five each - four troops in each group and 1 officer. In about an hour they had eliminated all the enemies, and the worst hit player was only down to about half his health. This is very reflective of what we see in the movies: Heros are able to defeat 'simple' villians easily and expediently with little damage themselves.

The stats above, including the stormtrooper armor bonus, reflect that. A +6 to reflex defense is next to nothing for a non-heroic stormtrooper. But for a hero who has the talents that increase his armor bonus it's a small something (if, as stated above and below, they're willing to trade their ability to hit a ranged target for greater defense).

What I personally think is that the need to go back to the Damage Reduction rules of armor. A quick explanation: When you make an attack on a character you roll 1d20 + Base Attack + Ability (Dexterity if Ranged, Strength if Attacked). A level 8 soldier for example has +8 base attack, mine has +5 Dexterity and Weapon Focus and Point Blank Shot (Granting me an additional +2 to attack). So I would roll 1d20 + 8 + 5 +2 for a total of 1d20 + 15. That number is then compared to my opponents (targets) reflex defense. Reflex defense equals 10 + dexterity + armor or level + class bonuses. My soldier doesn't where armor, and already has a +5 dex, and his class bonus is +1 so my total is 10 + 5 (dex) + 8 (level) +1 (Class) for a total of 24. To 'shoot' myself I would need to roll a 9 or better, because 9 +15 = 24, and that would be considered a hit. Now once you hit someone you also roll for damage, in the case above let's say that number is 2d8 + Half your Level. That means my total could be as high as 21. In that case, the enemy would lose 21 HP of damage (in the case of a stormtrooper, who only has 11 HP, he would be dead).

Now in the old system, instead of armor being a bonus to defense, it provided a base damage reduction. Damage what? Damage reduction means, if you have a DR of 5, you subtract 5 from the damage total before it is applied to you. In the case above, that would mean instead of dealing 21 damage, the enemy would only take 16 damage instead. In this case, IMO, armor is fulfilling it's designed role. Armor doesn't make it harder to hit you, it makes it harder to HURT you.

But the designers over at Wizards apparently disagree with me. I might change this for my current campaign. We've already canabilized the rest of the rules we didn't like, which there were far to many of.

But back to your point about armor being useless: If a stormtrooper only has 11 HP, and my rifle deals 3d10+8 damage it doesn't matter if I roll all 1's for my damage die, the stormtrooper is still just as dead. When you factor in armor with Damage Reduction, I only need a combined damage roll pf 8 out of 36. (with 3d12 my max damage is 36) The law of averages says I'm going to roll alot higher then that. So no matter what system you use, the Stormtrooper is pretty much going to get shot and die everytime.

if only to give something to the Mandalorians. I mean, mandos wear their armor all the time, and it doesn't seem to restrict their movement any, but is that kind of thing available?

I'm not sure what the deal is with Mandos. They seem to use Ranged weapons fairly often, but they never seem to be affected by the restricted dexterity their armor would afford them. The truthful explanation for this is that KOTOR I and KOTOR II have completely differant armor sets for enemies then they do for players with completely different restrictions and requirements. On the one hand this makes the game better because otherwise enemies would need to be 'stacked' (Quick FYI: When I say stacked I mean boosting a stat, level, skill or attritbute in one direction for a specific purpose) in a single direction to be combat capable against the players, but on another scale it breaks the balance of the game when your enemy gets armor with +12 defense bonus and no penalty to their dex modifier. (Another FYI: Dex modifier affects ranged attack mode, and is usually restricted by armor. So the more armor you wear, the worse shot you are.)

I have yet to play any RP campaign outside of the virtual kind, so I haven't had any experience with what you're talking about. (Not for want of trying, but I have few friends that interested in Star Wars. It's a sad affair, it is.)

I will keep this in mind. I've been meaning to start some sort of 'online' D20 campaign, and I'm always looking for willing participants.

On Some Unrelated RP Notes

The above campaign rules detailing how armor and stats work are one of the reasons it's impossible to run a Republic Commando campaign in the Saga D20 system. Regardless of what kind of stats you give your character, the cost of wearing the Katarn Armor will always mean you're a crappy shot with a blaster. And that's besides the fact that the encumbrance rules back it impossible to carry even half the gear Commandos carry into battle.

On Some Unrelated TOR Notes

(I am going to talk about things in relation to SWG because it exists and I won't pretend otherwise just because this is a new game. I see people complain all the time about comparing this to SWG - but then they compare it to WOW, Warhammer, or Baulders Gate. Let's have some standards here people.)

Things I am hoping for:
-Space Flight from the Getgo - we had to wait so long to get this in SWG that by the time we got it, almost no one cared. Additionally, the space flight was so damned restricted in SWG that you had to spend six weeks just to get to the PVP space flight areas. The worst part of poeples posts on the forums are the argument that there should be NO space flight because it would 'break the game balance'. WTF. What do they know about game balance? How can SPACE FLIGHT not exist in a STAR WARS game? Every SW game in existence has you traveling through space at some point or another - EVERYONE.
-Jedi as a Starting Class- this is ALL over the forums at the  TOR site. More then half the posts I see are not in favor of Jedi as a starting class. They want some uber system like they had originally in SWG where you had to spend 60 years to get to max level to unlock the Jedi Talent Tree. Yeah, why not make the game a SW WOW Clone? That sounds like a great idea. The irony here is that the same people complaining about Jedi as a starting class don't want to have to grind. What the hell? Seriously, what the hell? Besides that, this is KOTOR not Rebellion Era. Jedi are rightly all over the place involved in everything.
-NON-Jedi Emphasis - Something Star Wars games have been VERY poor about is giving people opportunities to be Han Solo's and Chewbaccas. Dark Forces, the original First Person shooter that featured Kyle Katarn turned into...Jedi Knight! And then Outcast, and then Academy. Battlefront turned into a Heros-only romp, where only characters with lightsabers can win. KOTOR I and KOTOR II? Jedi. You have to be. And in KOTOR II you can train your ENTIRE party to be, as well. How sucky is that? Where are the Carth Onasis? The Admiral Saul Karaths? The Lando Calrissians? The Wedge Antilles? The Kal Skiratas?
-NPC Based Economy - Again with the SWG - did they REALLY think a player based economy was going to work? Having to travel to sixteen planets to pick up sixteen different pieces of gear? All of which are so overpriced that no one but max level characters can buy them because only ONE person on your server is grinding out that skill enough to produce the high level items? Or worse, searching for hours for the location of a player owned NPC Terminal.
-Player Based Cities - maybe there is an MMO that makes this work, but I haven't seen one. What you end up with is a bunch of buildings that ALL look the same, and that ALL look like ALL the other player cities IN THE MIDDLE OF NO WHERE. On the side of a mountain, built in the middle of a river. WITH NO ROADS. Seriously. And they're all abandoned, in a state of decay, with no NPC's walking around to give them any atmosphere. I get that it's 'cool' to own your own city, but let's just let people build neighborhoods attached to real cities. That works much better IMO. With like, a shopping district for them to open stores. Abandoned buildings in SWG were the worst thing ever. On tatooine for example you couldn't move more then five feet without running into someones farming spread. And the badly designed questing system would sometimes place quests RIGHT ONTOP of player owned buildings, because the game didn't keep track of them in the same way that it generated quest starting locations.
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Anecdote

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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2008, 10:27:12 PM »
Lol - Mr. Ent.

Regarding SWG and KotOR release dates... They're only about four to five months apart. I'm not sure if that's quite enough time to base an entire combat system on, really.

But back to your point about armor being useless: If a stormtrooper only has 11 HP, and my rifle deals 3d10+8 damage it doesn't matter if I roll all 1's for my damage die, the stormtrooper is still just as dead. When you factor in armor with Damage Reduction, I only need a combined damage roll pf 8 out of 36. (with 3d12 my max damage is 36) The law of averages says I'm going to roll alot higher then that. So no matter what system you use, the Stormtrooper is pretty much going to get shot and die everytime.
Thanks for the massive explanation. I get the gist of what you're saying, in regards to heroic vs. non-heroic characters. What I still don't understand is the point to wearing armor if it's completely useless, (in regards to stormtrooper getting shot at, it is) but I suppose that's more a question for the reality of a given situation than game mechanics.
One would think that the Emperor, in all his infinite intelligence and planning skills, would equip his troops in something a little more useful than linen underwear.
Again, a question of reality versus game mechanics... which is probably why the story lines have always interested me more than the mechanics of most rpgs I play.

I will keep this in mind. I've been meaning to start some sort of 'online' D20 campaign, and I'm always looking for willing participants.
I'd like to play, even though I'm a total noob.  :P

On Some Unrelated TOR Notes

(I am going to talk about things in relation to SWG because it exists and I won't pretend otherwise just because this is a new game. I see people complain all the time about comparing this to SWG - but then they compare it to WOW, Warhammer, or Baulders Gate. Let's have some standards here people.)

Things I am hoping for:
-Space Flight from the Getgo - we had to wait so long to get this in SWG that by the time we got it, almost no one cared. Additionally, the space flight was so damned restricted in SWG that you had to spend six weeks just to get to the PVP space flight areas. The worst part of poeples posts on the forums are the argument that there should be NO space flight because it would 'break the game balance'. WTF. What do they know about game balance? How can SPACE FLIGHT not exist in a STAR WARS game? Every SW game in existence has you traveling through space at some point or another - EVERYONE.
-Jedi as a Starting Class- this is ALL over the forums at the  TOR site. More then half the posts I see are not in favor of Jedi as a starting class. They want some uber system like they had originally in SWG where you had to spend 60 years to get to max level to unlock the Jedi Talent Tree. Yeah, why not make the game a SW WOW Clone? That sounds like a great idea. The irony here is that the same people complaining about Jedi as a starting class don't want to have to grind. What the hell? Seriously, what the hell? Besides that, this is KOTOR not Rebellion Era. Jedi are rightly all over the place involved in everything.
-NON-Jedi Emphasis - Something Star Wars games have been VERY poor about is giving people opportunities to be Han Solo's and Chewbaccas. Dark Forces, the original First Person shooter that featured Kyle Katarn turned into...Jedi Knight! And then Outcast, and then Academy. Battlefront turned into a Heros-only romp, where only characters with lightsabers can win. KOTOR I and KOTOR II? Jedi. You have to be. And in KOTOR II you can train your ENTIRE party to be, as well. How sucky is that? Where are the Carth Onasis? The Admiral Saul Karaths? The Lando Calrissians? The Wedge Antilles? The Kal Skiratas?
-NPC Based Economy - Again with the SWG - did they REALLY think a player based economy was going to work? Having to travel to sixteen planets to pick up sixteen different pieces of gear? All of which are so overpriced that no one but max level characters can buy them because only ONE person on your server is grinding out that skill enough to produce the high level items? Or worse, searching for hours for the location of a player owned NPC Terminal.
-Player Based Cities - maybe there is an MMO that makes this work, but I haven't seen one. What you end up with is a bunch of buildings that ALL look the same, and that ALL look like ALL the other player cities IN THE MIDDLE OF NO WHERE. On the side of a mountain, built in the middle of a river. WITH NO ROADS. Seriously. And they're all abandoned, in a state of decay, with no NPC's walking around to give them any atmosphere. I get that it's 'cool' to own your own city, but let's just let people build neighborhoods attached to real cities. That works much better IMO. With like, a shopping district for them to open stores. Abandoned buildings in SWG were the worst thing ever. On tatooine for example you couldn't move more then five feet without running into someones farming spread. And the badly designed questing system would sometimes place quests RIGHT ONTOP of player owned buildings, because the game didn't keep track of them in the same way that it generated quest starting locations.
Aaaand I'm hoping for all you've stated above.

Although... I'm wondering if Player Based cities/homes are wise. I've heard (since I haven't played SWG), that you basically can't go far on Tatooine without running into someone's house. That seems kind of... unrealistic, doesn't it? Tatooine is supposed to be a massively deserted desert, harsh climate, unrelenting environment and more. I think I'd much prefer instanced homes (like in FFXI, but limited to the planet instead of whatever city/place you decide to stay in) or have player based cities within a restricted boundary, with maybe guidelines for an urban sprawl, or NPCs to set up the home's location for you so the town can at least look a little organized. I can only imagine the mess that exists on SWG.
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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2008, 11:33:27 PM »
Regarding SWG and KotOR release dates... They're only about four to five months apart. I'm not sure if that's quite enough time to base an entire combat system on, really.

Here's the deal about KOTOR and SWG. They both approached SW Armor in two totally and completely different ways. SWG had the, "Take the heaviest stuff you can to be combat competitive" approach. And KOTOR took the D20 "Only take the light stuff because your skills will get screwed if you don't." approach. Discussing both and their combat systems is VERY useful for comparison purposes.

Thanks for the massive explanation. I get the gist of what you're saying, in regards to heroic vs. non-heroic characters. What I still don't understand is the point to wearing armor if it's completely useless, (in regards to stormtrooper getting shot at, it is) but I suppose that's more a question for the reality of a given situation than game mechanics. One would think that the Emperor, in all his infinite intelligence and planning skills, would equip his troops in something a little more useful than linen underwear. Again, a question of reality versus game mechanics... which is probably why the story lines have always interested me more than the mechanics of most rpgs I play.

Okay. I'll try one more time to explain this. Heroic characters get 'defense' bonuses. Non-heroic characters don't. Armor provides defense bonuses instead of your level determining your defense bonus. Since non-heroic characters have no heroic classes, they get no defense bonus. If you give them armor, they take no real penalty to their abilities (because they have none) and no penalty to their defense because they have no class levels to get defense bonuses from, but they DO get the defense bonus from the armor.

So the Empires grand scheme is that it's probably easier to train a million thugs and give them armor, then to train a million soldiers and not give them armor.

I'd like to play, even though I'm a total noob.  :P

I'm working on this project again because both sets of players whose group I run as GM have asked me too.

Aaaand I'm hoping for all you've stated above.

Although... I'm wondering if Player Based cities/homes are wise. I've heard (since I haven't played SWG), that you basically can't go far on Tatooine without running into someone's house. That seems kind of... unrealistic, doesn't it? Tatooine is supposed to be a massively deserted desert, harsh climate, unrelenting environment and more. I think I'd much prefer instanced homes (like in FFXI, but limited to the planet instead of whatever city/place you decide to stay in) or have player based cities within a restricted boundary, with maybe guidelines for an urban sprawl, or NPCs to set up the home's location for you so the town can at least look a little organized. I can only imagine the mess that exists on SWG.

Hmmm...did you read what I wrote? That's basically what I said. I remember how 'developed' Tatooine became. It was disgusting. I think player based cities or districts should be an extension of the existing cities, preferably instance as you said.

I don't think Player Based cities should be allowed in a Star Wars game.

WARNING: The following part of this post is a rant. Read at your own risk. Loss of brain cells or spontaneous brain combustion or general bad feelings are not authors responsibility. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

I've actually joined the TOR forums and spent some time over there, and the community is pretty lousy. There's basically alot of people bitching about:

A) The Graphics
B) The Graphics
C) The size of the Lightsabers
D) The Graphics
E) The Lack of respect for SWG Vets
F) The Lack of respect of SWG Vets
G) The Graphics
H) The lack of respect for SWG Vets

No, those aren't double typos up on that list. Everyone and their mother thinks that being an SWG vet automatically makes them qualified to give advice THAT MUST BE HEEDED about how this game should and should not be developed.

In my opinion, they should all have a stick shoved up their @$$. This is exactly what's wrong with SWG. It tried to please everyone by listening to everyones suggestions and demands and give everything what they wanted. Then LucasArts came in and said we also want this, so we got the NGE. Then the Vets complained and they started to roll back some of the changes from the NGE. Stupid SWG Vets are so damned used to getting their way because Sony frakked up and rolled over and gave them everything they wanted that now they think Bioware should do the same thing JUST BECAUSE THEY PLAYED SWG.

The hell? Since when does playing a video game that got busted by the developing company suddenly make MY opinion more worthy then anyone elses? Why should they listen to me any more then say, the tube of toilet paper next to my toliet? In fact, if it watched me play as much SWG as some of the people on the forums over at TOR, does that mean that Bioware should listen to the Toilet Paper before it listens to the SWG vets? By their argument, I THINK SO.

But yeah. I digress.

This poor game is going to kick shebs anyway it comes out. But the SWG Vets are going to screw it and everyone who plays it over with their inane comparisons. I can just see the pissing contests now.

"Back on SWG I was a 100 Billionth Level Jedi and the first one on my server to unlock my force powers."
"YEah? back in SWG I had a dozen PVP Kills and was the first one on my server to build a lightsaber!"
"This game sucks so much more then SWG. You don't even have to work for a lightsabers."
"I can't believe they let Jedi in as a starting class, SWG would NEVER do that."
"Yeah? Well. My name is Akula. And I'm a dick."

The best thing Bioware could do for TOR would be to ban anyone who played SWG from the Servers and the Forums. For all our sakes.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 11:40:11 PM by Akula »
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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2008, 01:44:10 AM »
Here's the deal about KOTOR and SWG. They both approached SW Armor in two totally and completely different ways. SWG had the, "Take the heaviest stuff you can to be combat competitive" approach. And KOTOR took the D20 "Only take the light stuff because your skills will get screwed if you don't." approach. Discussing both and their combat systems is VERY useful for comparison purposes.

Okay. I'll try one more time to explain this. Heroic characters get 'defense' bonuses. Non-heroic characters don't. Armor provides defense bonuses instead of your level determining your defense bonus. Since non-heroic characters have no heroic classes, they get no defense bonus. If you give them armor, they take no real penalty to their abilities (because they have none) and no penalty to their defense because they have no class levels to get defense bonuses from, but they DO get the defense bonus from the armor.

So the Empires grand scheme is that it's probably easier to train a million thugs and give them armor, then to train a million soldiers and not give them armor.
OH! I see. I'm not sure why I was getting kind of... confused before. I blame the rain and three three-page papers due within a week.   :blush: :shock:

I'm working on this project again because both sets of players whose group I run as GM have asked me too.

Hmmm...did you read what I wrote? That's basically what I said. I remember how 'developed' Tatooine became. It was disgusting. I think player based cities or districts should be an extension of the existing cities, preferably instance as you said.

I don't think Player Based cities should be allowed in a Star Wars game.
Hmmm I must have misread/confused your post and something on the TOR forums. I tend to read multiple forums and respond to way too many at the same time. (Multi-tasking for the win? I currently have close to twenty tabs open. I love Firefox, I do.)

Along the instanced line, I really liked the FFXI system. (I have a love/hate relationship with that MMO though.) The feeling of being able to have a home or rent out a home in a city other than your home town felt really... well, realistic in a way. Sure, you didn't actually see the outside of your house, you ran into the "zone" for the Residential Area and loaded inside your house, but they gave you all kinds of furniture to mess and move around with, not to mention gardening as an integral part of money making and decoration. It was different. I spent hours doing mundane school-work with my character just sitting inside her home (usually in front of a fireplace, because I love fireplaces) and chatting with friends on the side. Towards the end before I quit, that was probably the only reason I even bothered to log in, and I still look back on those moments fondly.

I've never gotten the chance to actually experience the whole "hang out in a cantina" like people have described in SWG, and I kind of regret that I seemed to have missed my chance. Hopefully Bioware will remember the importance of cantinas, and implement something to have a reason for people to be there. I know other MMORPGs all have inns, but outside of hardcore RPing, there wasn't much reason to spend time in one.

WARNING: The following part of this post is a rant. Read at your own risk. Loss of brain cells or spontaneous brain combustion or general bad feelings are not authors responsibility. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

I've actually joined the TOR forums and spent some time over there, and the community is pretty lousy. There's basically alot of people bitching about:

A) The Graphics
B) The Graphics
C) The size of the Lightsabers
D) The Graphics
E) The Lack of respect for SWG Vets
F) The Lack of respect of SWG Vets
G) The Graphics
H) The lack of respect for SWG Vets

No, those aren't double typos up on that list. Everyone and their mother thinks that being an SWG vet automatically makes them qualified to give advice THAT MUST BE HEEDED about how this game should and should not be developed.
LOL
You're amazing.

In my opinion, they should all have a stick shoved up their @$$. This is exactly what's wrong with SWG. It tried to please everyone by listening to everyone's suggestions and demands and give everything what they wanted. Then LucasArts came in and said we also want this, so we got the NGE. Then the Vets complained and they started to roll back some of the changes from the NGE. Stupid SWG Vets are so damned used to getting their way because Sony frakked up and rolled over and gave them everything they wanted that now they think Bioware should do the same thing JUST BECAUSE THEY PLAYED SWG.

The hell? Since when does playing a video game that got busted by the developing company suddenly make MY opinion more worthy then anyone elses? Why should they listen to me any more then say, the tube of toilet paper next to my toliet? In fact, if it watched me play as much SWG as some of the people on the forums over at TOR, does that mean that Bioware should listen to the Toilet Paper before it listens to the SWG vets? By their argument, I THINK SO.
Since the two most assinine hardcore players from Everquest, who ranted and whined and whined some more, became class developers for WoW. That's when.

But yeah. I digress.

This poor game is going to kick shebs anyway it comes out. But the SWG Vets are going to screw it and everyone who plays it over with their inane comparisons. I can just see the pissing contests now.

"Back on SWG I was a 100 Billionth Level Jedi and the first one on my server to unlock my force powers."
"YEah? back in SWG I had a dozen PVP Kills and was the first one on my server to build a lightsaber!"
"This game sucks so much more then SWG. You don't even have to work for a lightsabers."
"I can't believe they let Jedi in as a starting class, SWG would NEVER do that."
"Yeah? Well. My name is Akula. And I'm a dick."

The best thing Bioware could do for TOR would be to ban anyone who played SWG from the Servers and the Forums. For all our sakes.
I thought you were an Ent.  :P

And lol.
I don't think Bioware is the banning type, really. But I also don't think Bioware takes much advice seriously, they seem to be a company that will do what they want, whether or not we like it. If the majority doesn't like it (and not the loudest, most obnoxious posters and their sheep followers) then they'll probably change it. ('It' being a general statement of something.)
I'm mostly judging this from my experience on the BioWare site forums, where even the most outraged are faced with die-hard, good-humored cynically sarcastic remarks.

But then again... I haven't played a BioWare game I didn't love, and I haven't met a sarcastic person I didn't take to nearly immediately, so clearly I'm biased.
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Hrafnsmerki

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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2008, 04:02:17 AM »
For me it's a shame, I, generally, have no time to play MMO's, and though I absolutly love the Old Republic Era I won't play this game. Damnit.

RC-288

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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2008, 07:54:41 PM »
If  ... Never mind [Edited]
« Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 08:02:26 PM by RC-1977 »

H-BOMB

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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2008, 09:23:11 PM »
MMORPG's have a tendency to make me crabby. I want to play it to make a real awesome character and interact with whatever fantasy world there is, but they always require so much attention and there is always someone better than you and . . . blargh!

Plus, most of them have *shudder shudder* pay to play fees, which are extremely hard to earn in my house.

And they get boring... fast. Nobody wants to constantly kill random enemies for hours on end just to have some sort of virtual reward. At least, I don't.

I think I will be spending my money and time on more important things.


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Mark

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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2008, 09:29:18 PM »
And they get boring... fast. Nobody wants to constantly kill random enemies for hours on end just to have some sort of virtual reward. At least, I don't.

I think I will be spending my money and time on more important things.

This game will not be based on the current MMO style of play. The designers have stated repeatedly you won't be playing a Darth Vader esque character rescuing a farmers tractor, and you won't be 'grinding' to level up, either.
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Anecdote

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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2008, 10:26:33 PM »
MMORPG's have a tendency to make me crabby. I want to play it to make a real awesome character and interact with whatever fantasy world there is, but they always require so much attention and there is always someone better than you and . . . blargh!

Plus, most of them have *shudder shudder* pay to play fees, which are extremely hard to earn in my house.

And they get boring... fast. Nobody wants to constantly kill random enemies for hours on end just to have some sort of virtual reward. At least, I don't.

I think I will be spending my money and time on more important things.
Just listen to the interview once (it's about 10 minutes long, not even), and most of the issues you stated will have been acknowledged.

It's Bioware, they don't want to make another cookie-cutter MMO. We want something different, they want something different, so we can only go up from here.
"Blame for error always lies with those who act; those who do nothing, what do they have to be wrong about?"

H-BOMB

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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2008, 10:27:34 PM »
If its based highly on the RPG series than I think I could stand to play it. ;D


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Anecdote

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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
« Reply #32 on: October 28, 2008, 03:33:02 AM »
Sooo unsurprisingly my account name is Anecdote on the SW:TOR forums.

If any of you sign up, feel free to PM me and add me to friends.
"Blame for error always lies with those who act; those who do nothing, what do they have to be wrong about?"

Cassus

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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
« Reply #33 on: October 28, 2008, 03:54:01 AM »
Since Anecdote made the precedent...

My name on the TOR forums is Cassus.  I'm really just a lurker, but you're welcome to message/friend me!  I'll definitely respond, even if it takes me a few days.  We should get a little network going now.  I'm really curious how they'll have clans/guilds/whatever-they're-going-to-call-them set up.  Mando Clan is a must.  Anecdote can think up the name of it with her vast knowledge of Mando'a.

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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
« Reply #34 on: October 28, 2008, 12:24:46 PM »
Ugh, all right look. I'd really like to friend you both but I have no idea how to find new members (plus the disappearing forum bar that is sometimes missing on the site is ALWAYS missing on my computer).

So my login is Akula, if you can find me, add me, both of you (Anecdote and Cassus).
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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
« Reply #35 on: October 28, 2008, 01:28:39 PM »
The way I did it was I went into "My Account" on the upper right hand corner, just went to the "Friends" tab, and then plugged your name in.  To be honest, I don't know how to search for a member, either.  My friend request does require a confirmation from your end, I think.

H-BOMB

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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2008, 07:48:55 PM »
Yo, I joined the TOR forums. I'm H_BOMB over there as well. I added you all to my list so you can add me to yours.

I just recently got my latest PC Gamer magazine and the cover story was Star Wars: The Old Republic. After reading it through and through I am really freaking excited for this game. If they can pull of most of their ideas it will be an awesome game. Hopefully they make a Mandalorian side faction for people.

Just imagine, you play the game for the first time and you end up in a small camp where you have to be taught the ways of tha Mandalorians. You get all these unique skills and weapons. It would be that much more awesome if they made it possible.


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Vlet Hansen

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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2008, 08:14:00 PM »
I tried to sign up, but the thing was so buggy I couldn't
It's Indiana Vlet!
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Anecdote

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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
« Reply #38 on: November 08, 2008, 01:57:47 PM »
I tried to sign up, but the thing was so buggy I couldn't
Try navigating away from the main/front page before signing up. Something about the front page makes most browsers lag for some reason, so try hitting the community button before doing anything.

Or here, even. I'll link you straight to the forums page. http://www.swtor.com/community/
"Blame for error always lies with those who act; those who do nothing, what do they have to be wrong about?"

H-BOMB

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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
« Reply #39 on: November 08, 2008, 03:00:30 PM »
Blah, I can't log in anymore. I put in my e-mail address and password, click login and it jst puts me back at the main community page without signing in. There isn't even a LOGIN FAILED message.'

EDIT: Never mind, I got it to work.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2008, 10:00:30 PM by H_BOMB »


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